Thank you for this post. I had to sleep on it to figure out my thoughts.
While I do ultimately agree with you that the goal is total liberation based on compassion and cooperation instead of veganism, talking in such terms feels more abstract. As a casual observer, reading this would give me no actionable items where as promoting veganism does give one an action item, namely, consume no animals. Veganism is a starting point towards the greater goal.
There are people like Tobias Leenaert taking the idea of baby steps even farther to generate even more results by promoting ideas like Meatless Monday. It is easier to convince a large number of people to reduce than it is to convince people to go vegan which is easier than getting people accept and create action around total liberation.
Germany is seeing a reduction in meat consumption not because of vegans or vegetarians (even though those numbers have gone up) but because of flexitarians. As much as I hate the idea of these morally half-ass people driving change, they are. And their change in consumption will change their attitudes towards animals because they have to do less mental gymnastics around eating animals.
On the opposite side, I enjoy listening to the Cranky Vegan on YouTube. However, he tends to believe we cannot have animal liberation without replacing capitalism since capitalism is fundamentally about exploitation. Going from "go vegan" to "also, dismantle capitalism otherwise total liberation won't happen" is a massive step that for all practical purposes is worthless. It is too great and impractical of an ask for people.
The actions we can take today will help shape our ideas and views for tomorrow. So while I like your thinking and agree with you on needing institutions based on compassion and cooperation, we need steps to take to bridge us from where we are now as a society to where we want to be. One of those steps is veganism. Granted, in your defense your post was not meant to be the theory of change bridging everything together.
You are what you eat, and if you eat the poison stolen dead flesh of another species then you are what you eat red dye, hormones tons of poison chemicals from down cows etc. You can never turn factory farm animals into a machine it is against nature and the results are America having more mutated, fat, unhealthy people on the planet then elsewhere. We must evolve from the dark ages and remove millions of poison chemicals from the soil or we parish and leave sickness and zero behind. Take a look at humans from 50 years ago we were tall and thin look as humans today need I say more this is happening from eating sick chemicals induced unnatural farmed once beings. YOU ARE WHAT YOU EAT on your way out.
Just to provide your powerful polemic with even greater traction in the general biospherical conversation, you might consider an introduction of the "autotroph/heterotroph" dichotomy in this expanding context of consumption. Furthering that technical mode, I might also add that memes need to be consumed by individuals as well (albeit conceptually or emotionally rather than via organic respiration) in order to propagate, even though they are not thereby destroyed in the process; but that's just a nibble quibble.
In any case, thanks for articulating this vital struggle so fervently. Rhetorical eloquence still matters in this willful age of ignorance.
Jul 23, 2022·edited Jul 23, 2022Liked by Wayne Hsiung
as always, i appreciate your thoughtful, well written posts. i disagree, however, with the basic premise. the first carnivores, i believe, did not bring domination as a way of life to earth. my understanding is that they fit into the eco-system, by not dominating, but eating only when hungry and only the weak, sick, aged or undeveloped. in this way, they culled the herd and made it stronger. there are relatively few carnivores compared to herbivores and usually, if the populations of each are kept in balance, things work out relatively well for both carnivorous and herbivorous.
domination as a way of life was brought to earth, however, by the species that is herbivorous by NATURE (physiology and anatomy), but carnivorous (or omnivorous) by BEHAVIOR. that’s us. humans. we can’t decide to actually BE carnivorous or herbivorous, no more than we can decide to BE a bird, fish or a mammal. we inherit these features. our herbivorous natures were established over a period of 5-10 million years when our ancestors ate fruit (mainly) in trees.
the first point i’m making is that there is a difference between the relatively small number of actual carnivores and the relatively large number of herbivores on the face of the earth (this excluding the waters and air - fishes and birds). and therefore the concept of domination is not relevant in relation to ACTUAL physiological carnivores because they fit into the eco-system in a fundamentally functional way. it’s not a decision. it’s an anatomical imperative.
my second point is that it was the decision of (mostly) men to act in a way contrary to our herbivorous natures and go out hunting, that turned the world upside down and began our domination first of other animals and then each other. i strongly recommend reading the latest 2022 edition of “an unnatural order - the roots of our domination and destruction of nature and each other” by jim mason (co-wrote with peter singer “animal factories” and “the way we eat - why our food choices matter.”) with his 10+ years of researching anthropologists, primatologists, scientists and historians, mason has given a compelling overview of human prehistory and history to show the actual origins of our greed, competitiveness, individuality, racism, sexism, enslavement and domination of others. "an unnatural order" is one of the most important works to bring awareness to this central topic.
and lastly, i don’t think one can compare civilizations in terms of how co-operative and compassionate or not they were or are, as they all grew out of our first huge transgression (of nature) - men hunting, then herding (“shepherding,” dominating, exploiting), then engaging in agri-torture (intensive domination of other animals by confining, breeding, castrating, cutting, burning, milking). these crimes against life and its unifying principles came into being through the abuse of animals and the ensuing enslavement and forced labor of humans. this was also the beginning of wars. the Sanskrit word for war translates as “a desire for more cows.” tribes fought each other for cattle and land upon which to graze them. again, read “an unnatural order” for a deeper understanding of “dominionism.”
We might look, for a moment, through the lens of Marxism. in this way, we can see that all societies are divided into major and dialectically opposite classes - the owning class, those who own land, resources, factories, wealth and the means of making more AND the working class - those who, in order to sustain themselves and their families, are forced to labor for the owners and make them more wealth.
the owners have come to own wealth, originally, by defining wealth as owning animals thus transforming a sentient being into a commodity, a somebody into a some “thing,” to be bought and sold. the amount of wealth one owned was measured by the number of “heads” of cattle, the number of “caps” (german for “head”) and thus animals became “capital.”
i think the system of capitalism, some owning wealth and the ability to exploit wage slaves, (workers), can be seriously weakened and dismantled when people stop investing in products obtained through exploitation, oppression and cruelty; i.e. stop purchasing animals, their bodies (“meat”) and the milk and eggs stolen from them. i.e. by going vegan and other unifying acts of resistance. the book i’m writing “awe-gasm” goes into this further - how together we can end this current global socio-economic system of oppression and, in turn, bring about a total liberation of all species, all categories of humans and all forms of life on our precious living planet.
This was an thought-provoking perspective that I learned things from, which is saying something because I have spent some time on the histories of consumption and power as well as on studies of compassion and social justice action. Wayne Hsuing belongs in both academic and public arenas to open people’s minds to finding the best in themselves and seeing others for what they are and can be.
Applause 🤗 if it were up to me I'd have human population control & mandatory spay & neuter 🤣😂🤣😂 but srsly weve thrown everything out of balance there needs to be sthg to put us in check and unfortunately theres not and most ppl only live selfishly for the now they dont care about the future. I always make the alien anology. If they're real and started farming us wed have an outcry, but aliens would be superior and just shrug that dumb animal is screaming again when we probe their assholes and were laughing and torturing them to make tender meat then only will humans have an epiphany because human nature they dont empathize until they experience it 4 themselves. I just don't get how some ppl think theyre so special just BC theyre human. Were not. Were all a waste of space and most will will be forgotten when we die. Another reason why I am like this life is to make a change. It is about making a difference. Otherwise you just are consuming & not giving back. I struggle with this daily.
Thank you for this post. I had to sleep on it to figure out my thoughts.
While I do ultimately agree with you that the goal is total liberation based on compassion and cooperation instead of veganism, talking in such terms feels more abstract. As a casual observer, reading this would give me no actionable items where as promoting veganism does give one an action item, namely, consume no animals. Veganism is a starting point towards the greater goal.
There are people like Tobias Leenaert taking the idea of baby steps even farther to generate even more results by promoting ideas like Meatless Monday. It is easier to convince a large number of people to reduce than it is to convince people to go vegan which is easier than getting people accept and create action around total liberation.
Germany is seeing a reduction in meat consumption not because of vegans or vegetarians (even though those numbers have gone up) but because of flexitarians. As much as I hate the idea of these morally half-ass people driving change, they are. And their change in consumption will change their attitudes towards animals because they have to do less mental gymnastics around eating animals.
On the opposite side, I enjoy listening to the Cranky Vegan on YouTube. However, he tends to believe we cannot have animal liberation without replacing capitalism since capitalism is fundamentally about exploitation. Going from "go vegan" to "also, dismantle capitalism otherwise total liberation won't happen" is a massive step that for all practical purposes is worthless. It is too great and impractical of an ask for people.
The actions we can take today will help shape our ideas and views for tomorrow. So while I like your thinking and agree with you on needing institutions based on compassion and cooperation, we need steps to take to bridge us from where we are now as a society to where we want to be. One of those steps is veganism. Granted, in your defense your post was not meant to be the theory of change bridging everything together.
You are what you eat, and if you eat the poison stolen dead flesh of another species then you are what you eat red dye, hormones tons of poison chemicals from down cows etc. You can never turn factory farm animals into a machine it is against nature and the results are America having more mutated, fat, unhealthy people on the planet then elsewhere. We must evolve from the dark ages and remove millions of poison chemicals from the soil or we parish and leave sickness and zero behind. Take a look at humans from 50 years ago we were tall and thin look as humans today need I say more this is happening from eating sick chemicals induced unnatural farmed once beings. YOU ARE WHAT YOU EAT on your way out.
This is a very most excellent article. I wish everyone could read this.
Great thought provoking article. Thank you!
Just to provide your powerful polemic with even greater traction in the general biospherical conversation, you might consider an introduction of the "autotroph/heterotroph" dichotomy in this expanding context of consumption. Furthering that technical mode, I might also add that memes need to be consumed by individuals as well (albeit conceptually or emotionally rather than via organic respiration) in order to propagate, even though they are not thereby destroyed in the process; but that's just a nibble quibble.
In any case, thanks for articulating this vital struggle so fervently. Rhetorical eloquence still matters in this willful age of ignorance.
Watch as we destroy ourselves and all around as the human/beast ignorant savage we are eating everything on legs even a table.
REALLY liked this one 🔥
(thanks for sharing)
have you read any of Foucault's, Agamben's, or Wadiwel’s (more recent) work on biopower/biopolitics? it ties in nicely with this piece.
(fwiw, i vote you write a book on the moral stress test)
as always, i appreciate your thoughtful, well written posts. i disagree, however, with the basic premise. the first carnivores, i believe, did not bring domination as a way of life to earth. my understanding is that they fit into the eco-system, by not dominating, but eating only when hungry and only the weak, sick, aged or undeveloped. in this way, they culled the herd and made it stronger. there are relatively few carnivores compared to herbivores and usually, if the populations of each are kept in balance, things work out relatively well for both carnivorous and herbivorous.
domination as a way of life was brought to earth, however, by the species that is herbivorous by NATURE (physiology and anatomy), but carnivorous (or omnivorous) by BEHAVIOR. that’s us. humans. we can’t decide to actually BE carnivorous or herbivorous, no more than we can decide to BE a bird, fish or a mammal. we inherit these features. our herbivorous natures were established over a period of 5-10 million years when our ancestors ate fruit (mainly) in trees.
the first point i’m making is that there is a difference between the relatively small number of actual carnivores and the relatively large number of herbivores on the face of the earth (this excluding the waters and air - fishes and birds). and therefore the concept of domination is not relevant in relation to ACTUAL physiological carnivores because they fit into the eco-system in a fundamentally functional way. it’s not a decision. it’s an anatomical imperative.
my second point is that it was the decision of (mostly) men to act in a way contrary to our herbivorous natures and go out hunting, that turned the world upside down and began our domination first of other animals and then each other. i strongly recommend reading the latest 2022 edition of “an unnatural order - the roots of our domination and destruction of nature and each other” by jim mason (co-wrote with peter singer “animal factories” and “the way we eat - why our food choices matter.”) with his 10+ years of researching anthropologists, primatologists, scientists and historians, mason has given a compelling overview of human prehistory and history to show the actual origins of our greed, competitiveness, individuality, racism, sexism, enslavement and domination of others. "an unnatural order" is one of the most important works to bring awareness to this central topic.
and lastly, i don’t think one can compare civilizations in terms of how co-operative and compassionate or not they were or are, as they all grew out of our first huge transgression (of nature) - men hunting, then herding (“shepherding,” dominating, exploiting), then engaging in agri-torture (intensive domination of other animals by confining, breeding, castrating, cutting, burning, milking). these crimes against life and its unifying principles came into being through the abuse of animals and the ensuing enslavement and forced labor of humans. this was also the beginning of wars. the Sanskrit word for war translates as “a desire for more cows.” tribes fought each other for cattle and land upon which to graze them. again, read “an unnatural order” for a deeper understanding of “dominionism.”
We might look, for a moment, through the lens of Marxism. in this way, we can see that all societies are divided into major and dialectically opposite classes - the owning class, those who own land, resources, factories, wealth and the means of making more AND the working class - those who, in order to sustain themselves and their families, are forced to labor for the owners and make them more wealth.
the owners have come to own wealth, originally, by defining wealth as owning animals thus transforming a sentient being into a commodity, a somebody into a some “thing,” to be bought and sold. the amount of wealth one owned was measured by the number of “heads” of cattle, the number of “caps” (german for “head”) and thus animals became “capital.”
i think the system of capitalism, some owning wealth and the ability to exploit wage slaves, (workers), can be seriously weakened and dismantled when people stop investing in products obtained through exploitation, oppression and cruelty; i.e. stop purchasing animals, their bodies (“meat”) and the milk and eggs stolen from them. i.e. by going vegan and other unifying acts of resistance. the book i’m writing “awe-gasm” goes into this further - how together we can end this current global socio-economic system of oppression and, in turn, bring about a total liberation of all species, all categories of humans and all forms of life on our precious living planet.
This was an thought-provoking perspective that I learned things from, which is saying something because I have spent some time on the histories of consumption and power as well as on studies of compassion and social justice action. Wayne Hsuing belongs in both academic and public arenas to open people’s minds to finding the best in themselves and seeing others for what they are and can be.
Applause 🤗 if it were up to me I'd have human population control & mandatory spay & neuter 🤣😂🤣😂 but srsly weve thrown everything out of balance there needs to be sthg to put us in check and unfortunately theres not and most ppl only live selfishly for the now they dont care about the future. I always make the alien anology. If they're real and started farming us wed have an outcry, but aliens would be superior and just shrug that dumb animal is screaming again when we probe their assholes and were laughing and torturing them to make tender meat then only will humans have an epiphany because human nature they dont empathize until they experience it 4 themselves. I just don't get how some ppl think theyre so special just BC theyre human. Were not. Were all a waste of space and most will will be forgotten when we die. Another reason why I am like this life is to make a change. It is about making a difference. Otherwise you just are consuming & not giving back. I struggle with this daily.